Show: Wrestling Epicenter
Guest: The Spellbinder AKA Phantasio AKA Del Rios
Date: 04/22/2025
Your Host: James Walsh
A lot of people connect the dots between pro wrestling and roller derby. While some of that probably has to do with the overall nature of it being a work. But, I’ve always argued that the wrestling business has a whole lot more of a direct line to the world of magic. If you think about it, both are the subject of numerous documentaries, films, and folklore all with the same overtones – How do they do it? Well, today, we welcome the first guy who connected those dots and while his time on the biggest stage was short lived, his tenure in pro wrestling was lengthy and his impact greatly felt. I am speaking, of course, about the SPellbinder who many of you may know better as Phantasio from his brief stint in WWE.
Del Rios, the real name of the Spellbinder, joins us for a brand new interview to discuss his love of magic, his unlikely and somewhat sudden transition into the world of pro wrestling, and his lengthy stay in the Memphis territory in the USWA and Power Pro Wrestling. The most interesting topics discussed include the debacle that resulted in the end of the USWA in 1997 as well as a very detailed, very dark journey through the final days of Del Rios’ best friend, “Grandmaster Sexxxay” Brian Christopher. I hope people do read this subject matter and listen to the interview as it really is powerful and tells a very real,never before told story.
The reason Del Rios joined us is to promote his brand new action figures as part of RUSH Collectibles’ Series 2 action figures. That’s right! You can add the Spellbinder, Phantasio, however you know him best, to your action figure collection as the brand new action figure is available for purchase. The figure is in the style of the WWF Hasbro line which ruled the roost fo wrestling action figures from 1989 through 1995.
Get the brand new RUSH Collectibles Series 2 Action Figure!
Don’t forget to check out https://www.wrestlingepicenter.com for more content like this. We’ve got over 880 interviews conducted with the greatest wrestling stars of all time. We started this journey in 2002 and our entire archive is available for you to check out 100% free at our site. All we ask is that you check us out. And, if you use this content on your site which we strongly encourage, please remember to link back to our site!
SPELLBINDER:
On what came first, his love of magic or his love of wrestling:
“Magic! Magic was my first love and I was as a magician even as a kid. Jeff Sheridan and Jeff McBride were my teachers. Jeff Sheridan actually taught David Copperfield. And, Jeff McBride was a huge, huge star as a magician. He opened for a lot fo big celebrities like Elton Jon, Diana Ross… People like that. My first love was magic. And, I wanted to be one of the world’s greatest magicians. But, I started working out. And, I started competing as a bodybuilder. But, I still loved magic! But, I got into wrestling because of my younger brother. He was a big fan and he said, “Oh man, you should be a wrestler!” I wasn’t a huge fan of WWF. But, one day, I took him to Madison Square Garden in New York to see the WWF. It was the Ultimate Warrior versus Mr. Perfect. When we were sitting in the crowd, a security guard came up to me and said, “What are you doing in the crowd? You should be back there!” Because of my size, he thought I was a wrestler!”
On making his pro wrestling debut on a WWE RAW dark match:
“I was green. I didn’t know anything. They knew that. But, they sent me to Memphis to learn how to wrestle. I was the first developmental talent. I did the match in the Manhattan Center and I was told to stick around because Vince McMahon wanted to talk to me. I said “OK” and he told me he liked what he saw and that he would have somebody contact me. A few days later, JJ Dillon called me and that is when they hired me.”
On becoming the Spellbinder in USWA:
“That segment that me and Skull (Big Vito) did, we rehearsed that. We went to Jerry Lawler’s house and did it in his living room for him. He thought it was great! And, we did it on TV and it came out great too. Vito and I, we trained together. We both were trained by Johnny Rodz in New York. In fact, it was Vito who encouraged me to do the dark match before RAW. I knew I was green and wasn’t ready. But, how could I pass up an opportunity like that? Anyway, we did that segment and that was the start of the Spellbinder.”
On the magic coming into play:
“Originally, they didn’t want me to do the magic. I needed to wrestle some and get some experience in the ring. So, i wrestled as Del Rios and then they let me be the Spellbinder and do magic. Actually, what was his name? Matt Bourne! He was Doink the Clown in the WWE and he was coming in and he wanted to do a magic gimmick. But, he wasn’t really a magician. He had bought a few tricks at a magic shop but he wasn’t really good at it. Jerry Lawler knew that was my gimmick so that helped get that going.”
On the studio style of wrestling and if it could still work:
“They call it studio wrestling and they call it Memphis style but really, it was anywhere in the south. The truth is that style was about stories. I believe that is why people loved pro wrestling. It had stories. You know, there are soap operas on TV right now that have been on 30, 40, 50 years. That doesn’t exist anymore. They’ve tried to evolve wrestling. But, I don’t see it. I just see guys doing a bunch of moves and the fans going “ooh, ahh” and it is like, OK. Whatever! You know? I’m not going to knock what they’re doing now. I hope they all make a ton of money. But, for me, it is just not the same.”
On the walth of knowledge that was in USWA at the time:
“You couldn’t help but learn being there. You had guys like Eddie Gilbert and Doug Gilbert… How could you not learn talking to a guy like Eddie Gilbert? I used to ride in the car and just listen and try to soak it all up. Sid Vicious was there. Man, a lot of the guys we’re talking about are no longer here. But, what a great opportunity to learn under those guys.”
On Lance Russell:
“Banana Nose! (laughs) Lance Russell was easy. Dave Brown was great too. But, he was a little bit more guarded on what you could do with him. Lance Russell was anything goes. And, he carried a level of respect with him. Because, already, he was a legend. You knew what line not to cross! If he told you something, you knew it was important. He made it so easy!”
On his televised WWE match as Phantasio:
“I was a babyface. So, they wanted the magic to be more kid friendly. But, I remember that match. We were in Pennsylvania. And, it was towards the end of a long taping. People in the crowd, they were tired. But, when I went out, they got excited and got loud… I had a lot of matches before that night with WWE but they were all dark matches. And, after that match, I had some that were filmed but they never got released for whatever reason. But, that match, the people got excited for with the magic and stuff. When I got to the back, I remember Mabel from Men on a Mission, rest in peace, came up to me and he said, “Hey man, that was great! You got the people going again!” Savio Vega came up to me too and he told me in Spanish, he said “that character is going to be on top!” But, there was one other guy, I don’t want to mention his name but lets just say he was working on every TV taping, he said, “you know something, Del? You were a little too good for your own good.” I didn’t know what that meant. Too good for my own good?”
On if he was upset not to be featured more on WWE TV:
“At the end of the day, I was working everyday. I was working the Memphis territory and I was working WWE house shows. So, it didn’t matter to me. I was getting two checks! One from WWE and one from Memphis, Tennessee working Jarrett Promotions!”
On a compliment Scott Hall gave him:
“I remember I was at TNA working a shot and Scott Hall came over to me. He said, “You know something, Del? The thing I like about you is you’re not a mark.” I was like, “Yeah, you’re right.” The thing you have to remember is I was the very first developmental talent signed to WWE. Before there was OVW, before there was NXT, even before Memphis was used as a developmental, I was signed. And, when they sent me to Memphis to learn, I never was asking anybody, “When are they going to call me up? When am I going to go to WWE?” I never did that. Every developmental that came in would do that. Man, no! The minute you start running your mouth, your time is ticking.”
On being pitted with Brakus to try and teach him:
“Yeah, that’s right. They knew I was a bodybuilder. So, Brian (Christopher) called me and he said, “Listen, my Dad says they want to bring in this guy from Germany and have you help him.” I was like, “All right.” Well, guess who it was? Achim Albrecht! He was a world class bodybuilder. I knew who he was from that. He didn’t speak very good English at all. I told him, “We’re going to be working together.” He didn’t even know how to lock up. I did most of the matches and he would do a power finish. A powerslam, something like that. In turn, we went to the gym and he taught me a lot of bodybuilding and conditioning. But, again, he kept asking when he was going to get called up to WWE. I told him, “Be patient!” But, he was in a totally different position from me. He had a wife and two kids, that type of thing. But, I saw it happen over and over again. I was smart! I kept my mouth shut and got a check for a long, long, long time!”
On the final days of the USWA in 1997:
“James Beard came in. It wasn’t just James. It was him and a couple of workers from Texas… And, James came in, he was a referee. But, after a while, he started calling himself the matchmaker. I was like, “Ugh, this is not gonna work.” Well, one day Jerry Lawler called me and said, “Listen, tomorrow, there could be some things that go down. They might say that they own the company. They don’t own the company. We own the company!” I called Brian and was like, “What’s going on?” he said, “Man, I don’t know.” So, we got to TV the next day and you could see there was two sides. There was a guy, his name was Mark Selzer. So, you had Mark Selzer and his guys from Texas and you had Jerry Lawler and his guys. And, our side, we were going to be more dominant. We lived there! But, I’m going to tell you when I knew it was ending. USWA wrestling was on for over 20 years on Saturday morning at 10 a.m. Ok? This is a fact. The city of Memphis would not wake up – There was nobody on the streets before 11:30 a.m. While that show was on, everybody was in their house glued to their TV. Well, during the show, Jerry Lawler made an announcement that the show was moving from 10 a.m. to 12 midnight. That was the beginning of the end. Nobody stays up to midnight. Not in the Bible Belt! They have to be in church the next day. That killed it!”
On if Memphis ever recovered from the loss of the USWA:
“No. Power Pro Wrestling was pretty popular. Randy Hales came up with Power Pro a little while after the USWA and they got the 10 a.m. slot. That went on for a couple of years. That went on until it ran its course as well.”
On when Brian Christopher started showing signs of not being well:
“Brian was the best man at my wedding. I was the best man at Brian’s wedding. We were of no blood relation. But, he and i were brothers. Brian, I remember he and I would have conversations for hours and hours from one city to another. Or, flying. We would spend more time in each other’s company than we did our own families. He was a super, super guy. But, his whole demenor changed. Everything changed when he went full time with WWE> It is not their fault. I don’t blame that company for anything. We as men do whatever we want to do. But, I remember his wife, at the time, coming to me. There were two shows (in WWE), the B team and the A team. I was on the B team. He was on the A team. We all met one time and we did a show in Memphis. It wasn’t at the Forum. It was at the Pyramid which was the biggest venue in Memphis. I was on the show, he (Brian) was on the show, The Rock was on the show… The Dudley Boyz… All the guys were on there. But, I remember something was wrong. I had done an 8 shot with WWE. Every night, I was working Mark Henry. Well, we were all booked on a show in Chattanooga…. And, I knew something was wrong because Dwayne (The Rock) wasn’t riding with him anymore. Myself, Dwayne, and Brian were tight. We trained together. So, I thought that was strange. Anyway, Brian jumped in the rental car with me and Downtown Bruno. But, I thought it was strange. I wanted to ask The Rock what had happened, why he wasn’t riding with Brian anymore. And, there was a few times I had him alone and I was about to ask him and somebody would walk in and I didn’t get to. The crazy thing was about a month later, I was in the gym and Brian’s wife came in and I talked to her for a few minutes. She asked, “Hey, what happened between Brian and Dwayne?” I told her, “I was wondering that myself.” What it was – Dwayne didn’t get high or do drugs or anything. And, Brian started getting in with some of the guys that did. Sean Waltman and all those guys. I have nothing against those guys. Sean Waltman and all of that group always were great to me. But, to this day, I’ve never gotten high, I’ve never drank. I’mno saint. I’ve done my fair share of anabollic steroids. That is how I was able to walk around at 300 pounds. But, I never was into recreational drugs. Sean Waltman, and I don’t mean to keep using just his name but a lot of the guys were doing the same things he was doing, a lot of those guys are still here. They’re alive. They could handle it. Brian wasn’t one of those guys. He couldn’t handle it. And, Brian just went south.Those guys could still work… And, those guys kept their jobs. Brian got fired. As a matter of fact, Brian got fired twice by WWE.”
On if Brian Christopher killed himself:
“As as much as I loved him, I had taken a break from wrestling. I had been doing it for 18 years. I started competing as a bodybuilder again. I was working as a personal trainer. Brian wasn’t doing well… He was doing little small shows here and there. But, nothing… I remember making sure Brian had what he needed. But, it just went too fast. I remember I was driving home with my wife and it was about 9 o’clock and Kevin, Brian’s brother, called me and he said, “Brian tried to kill himself.” I said, “What? Where are you at?” He told he he was where he was and it was a big time trauma center. I told my wife, “Get set, we’ve got to go.” She said, “What’s going on?” I said “Brian tried to hang himself.” She said, “Oh my God!” and we ran down there… And, man, we got there at about 9:45. They had us waiting in the downstairs. King (Jerry Lawler) coudln’t get there because he was stuck in Charlotte and couldn’t get a flight out. They let us in to see him at about 2:30 in the morning. The first person we saw was his mom. She said the first person she wanted to come in the room was me. Then, my wife. Then, Jerry Lawler’s girlfriend at the time. We stayed for a few hours. I took my wife home to get something to eat and grab a shower. By the time I got back, King was in the room… From the moment I first saw him before I left, I knew Brian wasn’t going to make it. I knew that was not Brian anymore. That was just a body. Brian was already gone. About 2:30 in the afternoon ona Sunday, an Argentinian Doctor came in to check Brian. In Spanish, so no one could understand me, I told him, “Hey, that man right there and I don’t have the same mother or father. But, he’s my brother. He’s not in there, is he?” He just looked back at me. I said, “You can tell me. They can’t understand us. He’s gone, isn’t he?” He looked back at me and he nodded yes. So, I said, “Let me ask you this, what is the point of this machine slamming on his chest keeping him breathing?” He said, in Spanish, “That’s the family’s decision.” So, I said, “What you’re telling me is that if we stop this machine, he’s going to go?” He said, “Yes. It could take 10 minutes, it could take a day, it could take week.” I told him I appreciated what he told me and shook his hand. He said, “I’m sorry.” I said, “No, you just made things easier for me.” Believe it or not, the first person I turned to when I turned around was Jerry Lawler, his dad. Jerry was looking dead at me in my face. He said, “Del.” I said, “Yeah.” He said, “What did he say?” I said, “You know I love you and I love that man. But, he said Brian’s not here with us.” King looked at me and looked down. He looked back up at me, he turned and looked at Brian’s mother, brother, and King’s girlfriend… And, I think the referee Jerry Calhoun. He said, “All right. Lets take him off the machine.” I said, “Are you sure?” He said, “Yeah, I’m sure.” We called the Doctor back in and we told him the decision. He looked at King and King made the gesture with his hands to turn him off. Now, this was one of the kindest things I’ve ever heard. They wanted it to be only family. So, the immediate family was going to stay. King turned to me and said, “No, Del. Stay. You’re part of the family.” Everybody else had to go. Just me, his mom, his dad, and Kevin. They turned the machines off. And, Brian was gone in about 80 seconds. It felt like somebody punctured my heart.”
On Jerry Lawler not believing Brian killed himself:
“At the end of the day, Jerry Lawler has to live with the fact that he doesn’t know. The thing is, nobody knows what really happened. Nobody knows. Sometimes I think Brian was trying to do something and it backfired. You know? Brian was also on some medications and they weren’t giving it to him in the prison. That had to have an impact on his psyche. But, the fact is, he’s not with us anymore over some stupid stuff.”
On stepping back into the ring recently:
“I have been out for a while. But, I did a show a couple of months ago and I put on the full Spellbinder persona. And, after the match, the best compliment I got was somebody came up to me and said, “Man, you just stepped right out of 30 years ago. You look exactly the same.” That is the thing. I’ve got the new action figure coming out with RUSH Collectibles. I don’t want the action figure to look like me then. I want to look like that action figure now.”
